Inside or outside, human or AI: Kerstin Wagner on TA’s toughest calls

Layoffs dominate the news, but they’re not the whole story.

Few people know the job market better than Kerstin Wagner. She has spent nearly two decades leading Talent Acquisition (TA) at two of Germany’s largest employers: Siemens and Deutsche Bahn.

Fresh from the stage at UNLEASH 2026 in Paris, Wagner tells UNLEASH Chief Reporter Allie Nawrat that “restructuring always makes good headlines. If companies are laying people off, people click on that.”

By comparison, “saying ‘there’s scarcity in the labor market’ is not a fancy topic.” The reality is that HR is working with “a tight labor market; the numbers tell you that” – all available data sources in the market illustrate this situation.

In this context, Wagner exclusively shares three decisions TA leaders can’t avoid: who owns internal mobility, where AI belongs in hiring, and how to build a team that keeps up with change.

Allie Nawrat: The headlines are about layoffs, but that’s hiding a bigger story. How do TA leaders need to make decisions differently in this labor market?

Kerstin Wagner: First, pull your data out and show management the reality and the outlook for the next five years.

Then, target your employer branding at the roles that are hardest to fill. Go into that niche and stay there. You also need a strong talent community, with specialist recruiters who are really close to those people.

And if you can convince your management, use this moment to recruit against the market: hire talents counter-cyclically in the segments where other companies are cutting.

AN: Retention and internal mobility weren’t traditionally TA’s job, but they’re moving into its remit. When a role could be filled internally, how should TA leaders make that call?

KW: I’m deeply convinced that TA should be responsible for both the internal and the external labor market. That covers all categories of jobs: permanent hires, temps and freelancers.

It should all sit together with TA, because TA sees every vacancy and knows which roles need filling.

From an efficiency angle, it’s a no-brainer. It’s basically the same recruiting process. It all starts with a vacancy; you need someone in that vacancy who can do the job.

It doesn’t matter where the candidate comes from; I’m even better off if I find someone internally who can do the job.

This matters especially during restructuring. It’s great when TA shows people opportunities inside the company, but if there’s nothing internally, or the person wants to leave, make sure you help them find a job outside.

TA should become a talent broker for the external market. That pays off too [because] that person stays positive about your company, and two years from now they may be the perfect fit for another role.

AN: What needs to exist for organizations to treat internal mobility and external hiring as one process?

KW: You need management buy-in, but you can also prove it works through your KPIs, by showing that it’s easier and faster to orchestrate candidates this way.

Convincing hiring managers isn’t the big problem. They have an open requisition and they want it filled. For them it’s the best thing to have one person who says: “I’m your talent broker. I’ll give you the right fit. If it’s an internal candidate, even better. If it’s external, I’ll manage that for you.”

TA knows the labor market and knows candidates very well. You also have to make clear that TA isn’t moving into talent development. It’s about orchestrating talent into jobs.

As with any change, explain the strategy and start with a small team, show it works, and let that team co-create.

Then do your numbers. For example: Take the first 100 people from a restructuring, and start finding jobs for them on the internal and external market.

Show that to everybody, and even the Finance team will see the business case. You save money on employer branding, recruiting, and onboarding if you place a candidate on another job internally, because the person is already in the company.

AN: AI is the topic of the moment. Why isn’t the answer just to add tools to existing processes, and what should TA get right first?

KW: First understand the development of the AI and tech landscape; that’s a must-have.

Then, ask what outcome you want to achieve. Once you know that, design the process. Even if you have already processes in place, take a greenfield approach.

My question is always: what would I do if we were founding the company today, with a new team and no processes? What would be the most efficient approach, and also the most customer-oriented?My question is always: what would I do if we were founding the company today, with a new team and no processes? What would be the most efficient approach, and also the most customer-oriented?

Next, in that newly designed process, decide which pieces are 100% human. Decide that before you implement and automation and AI.

Stay open-minded, even late in the design work. Maybe an automated step adds no value, and you should focus on the human interactions instead.

AN: Recruitment is the prime AI use case. Where does the human element most need to stay in TA, and why?

KW: It needs to stay in all the interactions where a candidate can experience the culture, and where they need answers that only a human can give.

A candidate applies because you did a good job on employer branding, or because someone said positive things about you. Then they look for interactions, and in those you can show them the culture more deeply, answer their questions, or convince someone who isn’t sure about switching jobs.

In my opinion, humans are best at that; they are the culture enthusiasts.

If everybody uses AI 100%, what’s the difference? Humans make the difference.

AN: TA teams are being asked to rethink hiring while reinventing themselves. Having led TA at various organizations, what have you learned about bringing a team through change?

KW: TA is the HR function most exposed to the outside market and is in real competition with others, and it’s at the forefront of technology.

If you want to be ahead of the curve, you have to install a culture of innovation and learning in your team. You can’t just click a button and say: ‘Now we’re innovative.’

That means being a role model yourself. Go deep into what you’re doing and have a clear vision of where you want to go. Then you can lead people, inspire them and give your team the freedom to experiment.

I always say: No idea is too crazy, give employees a playground for experiments and learning together. For example, I set up a so-called “AI hub” where everyone in the team could take part even if they had no idea how to prompt. You might have a brilliant idea for how we could use AI, and someone else knows how to implement it.

Innovation also comes with learning, and you’ll hit a hurdle: ‘I have 500 requisitions to fill. I don’t have time for learning.’

My advice is to block learning time in the calendar every week and commit to it.

With learning time blocked, I can say: ‘Next Monday, in your learning slot, there’s training on this new method, approach, process.’ That’s how you build a learning culture.

Learning comes with innovation, and innovation from learning.

Finally, have open and honest conversations with your people, talk with different operational roles in the TA team; go and sit with them, listen and understand the challenges, the potential for optimization.

Enter quickly in the solution room with the team to be always ahead of the curve in a very dynamic TA world in transformation.